tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-387052581086893410.post2365868552818043342..comments2023-09-28T10:59:26.381+01:00Comments on Living, writing and other stuff: Is education good for you?Bill Kirtonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07675643113010061969noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-387052581086893410.post-85313961427772635942011-05-22T10:32:17.487+01:002011-05-22T10:32:17.487+01:00Thanks, Scary. The laughter bit's always the m...Thanks, Scary. The laughter bit's always the most important.Bill Kirtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07675643113010061969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-387052581086893410.post-88904313648461537282011-05-21T16:44:19.901+01:002011-05-21T16:44:19.901+01:00I just loved your examples. especially the one abo...I just loved your examples. especially the one about banging the balls against the fence. :)scaryazerihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08209595384194222929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-387052581086893410.post-16296861873504769972011-05-20T20:58:27.180+01:002011-05-20T20:58:27.180+01:00I'm worth it but, as your doctor, I think you ...I'm worth it but, as your doctor, I think you should get your eyes tested - it's 93% plus VAT.Sara Bainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10297131235907250162noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-387052581086893410.post-29008675864268789372011-05-20T09:31:25.433+01:002011-05-20T09:31:25.433+01:00Helen - I totally agree that 'bad' grammar...Helen - I totally agree that 'bad' grammar in dialogue helps make the characters authentic. But I'm also one of those who shudders at 'bad' English from people who should know better.<br /><br />Sara - I'm flattered by what you say but I should add that I can also tell really filthy jokes. And since, as my lawyer, you're already taking 83% of my earnings, I have to settle for whatever I can get from others.Bill Kirtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07675643113010061969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-387052581086893410.post-76305633350251211492011-05-19T23:31:00.455+01:002011-05-19T23:31:00.455+01:00I think that journalist friend of yours asks far t...I think that journalist friend of yours asks far too many silly questions. Suffice it to say, Bill, that your education - be it bare wood or veneered - shines throughout your work and provides the basis for your hallmark humour. It also makes for faultless manuscripts. And, by the way, don't let Michael exploit you. As your lawyer, I advise you not to settle for anything less than 2.759%Sara Bainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10297131235907250162noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-387052581086893410.post-90009001793978603092011-05-19T21:52:26.676+01:002011-05-19T21:52:26.676+01:00Interesting subject, Bill, thanks. I always though...Interesting subject, Bill, thanks. I always thought I was away from school the day they did grammar. It turns out we weren't learnt it in the 60's. Ouch. Sorry. But when I did decide to do a degree (age 47) I opted for Media Writing and not English.I honestly felt that my writing,my self expression, could become sanitised and I didn't want nowt of that.In my latest endeavour I have tried to compromise and only use colloquial or grammatically incorrect language in dialogue. Cuz, par example, if that's 'ow we talk, why change it? I sometimes see people shudder when mistakes are made and wonder if we shouldn't be worrying about more important things..? Like, will the world on Saturday ( as some are predicting) and will it be during my flight to the UK? Just in case, I am not paying next month's rent...until next month.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-387052581086893410.post-42067958446664876112011-05-17T16:19:20.054+01:002011-05-17T16:19:20.054+01:00:):)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13316263425112020638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-387052581086893410.post-193875492025020022011-05-17T16:06:40.661+01:002011-05-17T16:06:40.661+01:00OK.OK.Bill Kirtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07675643113010061969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-387052581086893410.post-44835913579758180402011-05-17T14:19:58.765+01:002011-05-17T14:19:58.765+01:002.5%2.5%Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13316263425112020638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-387052581086893410.post-88382793005643948462011-05-17T11:16:24.836+01:002011-05-17T11:16:24.836+01:0015%15%Bill Kirtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07675643113010061969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-387052581086893410.post-25773960615791181372011-05-17T10:19:30.744+01:002011-05-17T10:19:30.744+01:00oooooo - "education as veneer" - LOVE th...oooooo - "education as veneer" - LOVE that. Gaunnae steal it.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13316263425112020638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-387052581086893410.post-85920636824747738522011-05-17T09:40:26.777+01:002011-05-17T09:40:26.777+01:00Thanks, Michael. I think my point's supported ...Thanks, Michael. I think my point's supported both by your comment and by your work. Your poems are dynamic, free, intensely personal and uninhibited. There's no doubt that it's your voice we're hearing in them.<br /><br />And I like (and echo) your observation that many people manage to get an education without having any intelligence. It's education as a veneer.Bill Kirtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07675643113010061969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-387052581086893410.post-12572404089304130272011-05-17T08:49:22.497+01:002011-05-17T08:49:22.497+01:00I used to think that I was somehow lacking because...I used to think that I was somehow lacking because I didn't go on to further education. Then when I began writing I felt less of a writer because I wasn't familiar with the classical themes or tropes of literature. Now I mostly don't give a f**k. <br /><br />In my case I confused "education" with intelligence and I've learned that many people manage to get the former without involving the latter.<br /><br />I've also met a few English graduates who went into the subject because of a love of reading and then had that love "educated" out of them by interminable analysis.<br /><br />My education has come from reading writers I love and trying to emulate their success in telling a good story.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13316263425112020638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-387052581086893410.post-34328758526154702092011-05-16T16:06:54.364+01:002011-05-16T16:06:54.364+01:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Majid Alihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14912405599661249292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-387052581086893410.post-39795150983036103382011-05-16T10:05:59.124+01:002011-05-16T10:05:59.124+01:00Yes, Rosemary, and what you say makes me realise I...Yes, Rosemary, and what you say makes me realise I've been too broad in my claims. I think we become who we are (and continue to keep on becoming it) by amalgamating all the things we've been. I really should have focused more clearly on the effect that a formal education, with its rules and outcomes and exams and conformities, has on our voice as writers. Now and then I write stuff that's sort of posh, but I'm as far from posh as it's possible to be.Bill Kirtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07675643113010061969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-387052581086893410.post-87544843475205448732011-05-16T09:57:53.969+01:002011-05-16T09:57:53.969+01:00I think the sort of education you're speaking ...I think the sort of education you're speaking of, Janice, is exactly the sort that works - i.e. maintaining a balance between the formal, structured stuff and what comes through actually living. As I read your comment, I wondered whether you thought that if you'd had more of a 'formal education', you'd have been a better writer. I don't think so.<br /><br />You're right Jean, about both sides of the tracks. Maybe I gave the impression that I was denying the validity of the middle-class experience - I wasn't, I was just noting that it's qualitatively different. There are different realities.Bill Kirtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07675643113010061969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-387052581086893410.post-90398456671733318122011-05-16T09:48:11.724+01:002011-05-16T09:48:11.724+01:00Interesting post as always. I think the most impor...Interesting post as always. I think the most important point about any kind of background and education is how we use it as adults. All of life informs us and university is only one element of who we are now (if we've been). <br /><br />I'm from a very humble background but had an insatiable curiosity for learning. I didn't do my degrees until as a mature student with the OU and that was some of the best years of my life. But I never consider whether someone has been to universtiy or not - it's all about who they are as people.Rosemary Gemmellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09311840205603508422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-387052581086893410.post-89548370015959702842011-05-16T03:48:10.785+01:002011-05-16T03:48:10.785+01:00Bill,
I came from a similar background, although ...Bill,<br /><br />I came from a similar background, although in <br />southern California, and was the first in my family to attend a university. My lower middle class upbringing has served me well for I can not only write both good and bad grammar with ease, I understand what people are thinking on both sides of the railroad tracks. :)Jean Henry Meadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08146960738692672013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-387052581086893410.post-10496502744002930152011-05-15T20:00:54.988+01:002011-05-15T20:00:54.988+01:00What a great open-ended question, Bill. My thought...What a great open-ended question, Bill. My thoughts are that education is good for you as long as at least part of it is from the university of life!<br />I had no formal education at all. I played truant through for most of my secondary school years, although I always spent those ‘missing years’ in art galleries or museums. I was lucky to come through that relatively unscathed, and it’s interesting to note that throughout my working life, I’ve often worked as an equal alongside university graduates. However, I wanted an education for my children and they have been lucky enough, and focussed enough, to get it. My children are the first people (ever) in my and my husband's family to go to university.<br />There is no doubt that where we come from demographically shapes us - and your non academic family background, Bill, obviously adds great contrast to your life - it gives context and empathy and makes you the very interesting and articulate person you are today. I hope my boys can one day reflect (and humbly appreciate) their education the way that you are now able to reflect upon yours.Janicehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01831786754054878605noreply@blogger.com